---
product_id: 1699766
title: "Utopia (Dover Thrift Editions: Philosophy) Paperback – July 7, 1997"
brand: "thomas more"
price: "S$13"
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reviews_count: 3
url: https://www.desertcart.sg/products/1699766-utopia-dover-thrift-editions-philosophy-paperback-july-7-1997
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region: Singapore
---

# Utopia (Dover Thrift Editions: Philosophy) Paperback – July 7, 1997

**Brand:** thomas more
**Price:** S$13
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- **What is this?** Utopia (Dover Thrift Editions: Philosophy) Paperback – July 7, 1997 by thomas more
- **How much does it cost?** S$13 with free shipping
- **Is it available?** Yes, in stock and ready to ship
- **Where can I buy it?** [www.desertcart.sg](https://www.desertcart.sg/products/1699766-utopia-dover-thrift-editions-philosophy-paperback-july-7-1997)

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## Customer Reviews

### ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ What this perfect world lacks is privacy
*by C***U on February 18, 2015*

This audiobook has a great, smooth narration that lets me enjoy the authors ideas while commuting. Very nice recording. The ideas in the book seem mildly terrifying especially since I'm an introvert. Life has been regulated to be public. So all meals are at a public location and women are mandated to take their turns preparing the public meals (sounds like a truly horrific slavery). Any man may enter into any man's house and the houses are rotated by lottery.What this perfect world lacks is privacy. Children of families that are naturally more abundant than others are "reassigned" to families who are unable to produce children. Do the parents have any say in this matter?Like so many of the books which purported to prescribe a perfect world for us, the perfection of this world is it's horror. As so many decisions have been mandated, it appears that individual freedom to chose - even to keep one's one child - or to NOT participate in the public evening meal every night (how exhausting) - are not optional. It reminds me a bit of the 1800s laws in the US mandating church attendance. What if I don't want to eat dinner tonight? What if I decide I'm just gonna order pizza and have a beer and watch the Spurs? Apparently that is not allowed in the perfect society of the 1500s.This kind of novel is nonetheless valuable because in attempting to create a perfect world, it allows readers to really think about what IS perfect. Is the chaos of democracy better? Democracy has its chronic indecision and inability to move smartly forward because of the laborious and time consuming process of getting Congress or the public to agree on a concept. Yes, I have to say, I much prefer the raging American debates about abortion and gay rights to the no one lacks for anything world of Thomas More where none consider diamonds or gold interesting because they aren't useful, but iron is valued because it can be used. All cups are made from pottery; all cloth is the same color as the original material. Everyone wears the same clothes and works on their free time to improve their minds. Actually, Star Trek, the Next Generation, is a pretty close imitation of the ideas in this book, but at least in ST, you can have a private cup of tea alone in your room and you can do something privately that may not improve your mind.

### ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ A beautiful thought
*by M***H on April 12, 2024*

I wish it could be real. I enjoy the idea of this society, and I think it's brought to the pages masterfully. Open your mind and let the words guide you.

### ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Utopia
*by S***S on April 14, 2013*

Thomas More lived from 1477 to 1535. He was convicted of treason and beheaded in 1535 for refusing to accept King Henry VIII as head of the Church of England. Utopia, written in Latin, was published in 1516. It was translated to English by Ralph Robinson in 1551. The translation by Clarence Miller was published by Yale University Press in 2001. [This review is based on the Miller translation.]The text of Utopia is in two books. Book 1 was written after Book 2. It is in Book 2 that the society of the place named `Utopia' is described by a traveler, Raphael Hythloday, who through his travels had lived there for a time and has returned to England to report on what he learned. Book 1 is a lead-in to Book 2 and was probably intended to establish interest in the subject of Book 2. The narrative form of Book 1 is a conversation of Hythloday with Thomas More and Peter Giles, and of Book 2 the form is a monologue by Hythloday.Hythloday, speaking in Book 1, agrees with Plato and the people of Utopia that "as long as everyone has his own property, there is no hope of curing them and putting society back into good condition." (48) More disagrees and believes, along with Aristotle and Aquinas, "that no one can live comfortably where everything is held in common. For how can there be any abundance of goods when everyone stops working because he is no longer motivated by making a profit, and grows lazy because he relies on the labors of others." (48)These statements occur near the end of Book 1, which began, after some preliminaries, with a conversation about the justice of the death penalty for theft. (In an endnote on page 145, Miller tells of a report from 1587 that "in the reign of Henry VIII alone 72,000 thieves and vagabonds were hanged.") Hythloday believes that theft is a necessary consequence of personal property. Unstated but evident is that he believes also that personal property is not only a sufficient condition for theft (which makes theft a necessary consequence of it), but also a necessary condition for theft (which makes theft contingent upon it). Removing personal property, then, removes the possibility of theft, he believes: with the unexamined assumption that you cannot steal what you already own in common with everyone else. But of course you can: you take it and keep it for yourself so no one else can use it, taking what belongs to everyone, and not sharing it with anyone. Only the coercion of others, through established law or otherwise, can alter this. But then you are back to the existence of theft and social restraints to admonish and respond to it.In Book 2 Raphael Hythloday describes Utopia. The word `Raphael' means "God's healer", and the word `hythloday', from Greek, means "peddler of nonsense". The word `utopia' is a Greek pun that means both "good place" and "no place". If Hythloday is speaking nonsense motivated by the deepest moral compassion, where is the nonsense? Is Utopia a good place that is no place, or is it no place that is a good place? (The second reading can mean it is not a place that is a good place.)"From my observation and experience of all the flourishing nations everywhere, what is taking place, so help me God, is nothing but a conspiracy of the rich, as it were, who look out for themselves under the pretext of serving the commonwealth." (132)Outside of Utopia, money is the cause of endless trouble. In Utopia, "once the use of money was abolished, and together with it all greed for it, what a mass of troubles was cut away, what a crop of crimes was pulled up by the roots! Is there anyone who does not know that fraud, theft, plunder, strife, turmoil, contention, rebellion, murder, treason, poisoning, crimes which are constantly punished but never held in check, would die away if money were eliminated?" (132)Utopia is a society under full and strict regimentation. Its culture is, in effect, nothing but what is a consequence of social regimentation. Nothing exists in the culture that is not a result of this pervasive social control. Utopians believe they do not live in a tyranny only because they accept and desire the collective regimentation under which they live. They are the perfect slaves.Utopians are ambivalent, in fact illogical if not morally arrogant, about killing for food or defense. They eat animals but "they do not allow their citizens to be accustomed to butchering animals" but rather have "bondsmen" do this because they believe that butchering animals for food "gradually eliminates compassion, the finest feeling of human nature." (68) Bondsmen are apparently immune to such a descent into moral corruption, or else they are bondsmen exactly because they are already morally degraded and so either immune to further corruption or they are beyond moral rectification, and therefore the moral consequences of killing for food cannot matter for their moral selves. So bondsmen who butcher animals either have no compassion, it having been gradually eliminated through butchering, or because their moral precondition, their qualification of moral impurity, includes diminished compassion from which their moral descent continues, or else they have compassion and, being bondsmen, they are somehow immune from the moral consequences of killing for food, either because of their moral deficiency or because bondsmen have a moral strength that the citizens of Utopia lack.Marriage is not allowed until age 18 for women and age 22 for men. Extramarital sex is a crime, and in the case of anyone married, the consequence of a second act of adultery is death. The method is not stated, nor who in Utopia administers capital justice, although it is likely to be a slave. (99)It is mainly (or only) the slaves who kill for the Utopians, but it did not require any killing to become a slave. In fact, "the most serious crimes" (unstated, but clearly not only murder) are punished by "servitude" (slavery). "If slaves are rebellious or unruly, then they are finally slaughtered like wild beasts that cannot be restrained by bars or chains." On the other hand, if they are "tamed by long suffering and show that they regret the sin more than the punishment, their servitude may be either mitigated or revoked, sometimes by the ruler's prerogative, sometimes by popular vote." (100)What happens to those slaves (bondsmen) who helped feed the citizens of Utopia by butchering animals for food and thus suffering the apparent moral consequence of diminished compassion is not stated. Perhaps Utopia uses only slaves gotten from outside the citizenry of Utopia for their necessary killing. Utopia has slaves captured in wars they fought and other "foreigners who have been condemned to death" which the Utopians "acquire [...] sometimes cheaply, more often gratis and take them away." Foreign slaves are kept "constantly at work" and in chains. (95) Utopia also has slaves who entered into slavery by choice. These are "poor, overworked drudges from other nations [...] who chose to be slaves among the Utopians." Such slaves can relinquish their slavery whenever they choose, but in doing so they leave Utopia, although they are not "sent away empty-handed." (96)Utopians do not fight their own wars if they can avoid it. Killing, although morally necessary, is morally degrading, so they hire mercenaries to defend Utopia. They do, however, train for war - men and women both - "so that they will not be incapable of fighting when circumstances require it". (105) They go to war reluctantly, and "do so only to defend their own territory, or to drive an invading enemy from the territory of their friends, or else, out of compassion and humanity, they use their forces to liberate a[n] oppressed people from tyranny and servitude." (105) Upon declaring war, they immediately offer enormous rewards for the assassination or capture of the enemy prince and others "responsible for plotting against the Utopians." (108)Utopians are tolerant of differing views on religion and "on no other subject are they more cautious about making rash pronouncements than on matters concerning religion." (122) However, they scorn unbelievers in any deity or afterlife, and "do not even include in the category of human beings" nor "count him as one of their citizens" if he "should sink so far below the dignity of human nature as to think that the soul dies with the body or that the world is ruled by mere chance and not by prudence." (119) "For who can doubt that someone who has nothing to fear but the law and no hope of anything beyond bodily existence would strive to evade the public laws of his country by secret chicanery or to break them by force in order to satisfy his own personal greed?" (119) "He is universally looked down on as a lazy and spineless character." (119) In fact, "a religious fear of the heavenly beings" is "the greatest and practically the only incitement to virtue." (127)There is a kind of state religion in Utopia which includes high priests and public worship. "They invoke God by no other name than Mythras, a name they all apply to the one divine nature, whatever it may be. No prayers are devised which everyone cannot say without offending his own denomination." (126) "When the priest [...] comes out of the sacristy, everyone immediately prostrates himself on the ground out of reverence; on all sides the silence is so profound that the spectacle itself inspires a certain fear, as if in the presence of some divinity." (128) Priests are held in such high esteem that "even if they commit a crime they are not subject to a public tribunal but are left to God and their own consciences. [...] For it is unlikely that someone who is the cream of the crop and is elevated to a position of such dignity only because of his virtue should degenerate into corruption and vice." (124)

## Frequently Bought Together

- Utopia (Dover Thrift Editions: Philosophy)
- The Prince (Penguin Classics)
- Leviathan (Penguin Classics)

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